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Author Topic: new speaker  (Read 1193 times)
Ed Schilling
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« on: July 04, 2019, 02:42:18 PM »

I've come up with something "new" and "different". It seems to be very, very good. We'll see as time goes on. I put it together for Sidney and it exceeded my expectations by a HUGE amount.

It is an aperiodic 6 1/2 inch with a Great Heil. I threw an xover together just to  figure out where to go. I'm afraid the answer is nowhere. Not sure what to do to "improve it". The things are happy playing any type of music I have thrown at them.

The best part is that in my room with the Beasts they do not need a sub at all and they are not boomy either. They are small too. And yes, they will play loudly and cleanly.

More later.
Ed
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Capt. Z
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2019, 11:53:49 PM »

how about some fotos and a video?  Cool
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tooppy
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2019, 12:54:20 AM »

........ Not sure what to do to "improve it......
Ed


May be double BR.... Karlson type enclosure....
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2019, 09:46:27 PM »

Toopy, I almost spit my beer out! Smiley No DBR and no Karlson! Too much trouble and too much work!

I was talking about the xover. I could spend months or a year agonizing over it. The speaker is very good as is but I will mess with the xover when I build the second pair. These are for Sidney and Hayden. I got lazy and got them some Yamaha speakers. They sucked as bad as I figured they would. Replace shitty xovers. They got a little better. With the tone controls on the Marantz 1060 (has midrange control) they don't make you want to run from the room but almost.

That mess caused me to actually do something. I designed them and had the cabs built in 1975. They used the JVC ribbon tweeter and a Vifa woofer. They were sealed and built of /4 inch laminate covered plywood. They are extremely dense and heavy.

They Vifa's are long gone. I happened to have a new 6 1/2" driver lying around. Quick check of the specs. indicated it may work in the box. It did. A few stuffing changes and it was quite nice. I figured I'd remove the ribbon and use some open cell foam to make the cabinet "aperiodic". In the past I'd used "variovents" to do pretty much the same thing. NOW, I was getting somewhere. More stuffing changes  and all of a sudden it was "real".

They disappear in the room. I literally forget they are on and all of a sudden I realize I am not listening to The Horns. The FFRS Mark 4:20i  blends perfectly with them.

They should be easy to duplicate and I have Heils and drivers coming.

For the record, I was NOT a "horn guy" when Dad built the first ones. I ONLY used corner horn loading to achieve the goal of a single driver of the correct size that could play at realistic level. It was and still is the only way. They were a means to and end and as we know it worked out well.

I always designed and built TL's and sealed (or aperiodic). Never given a Karlson a serious thought and I never heard one.

Ed
ps...... here is the JVC ribbon   JVC HSW 1101-01  https://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-Ribbon-Tweeter-SPECIAL-SALE-Real-Original-Ribbon-/153439407008?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

Tony, does "Marantz 1060" sound familiar? She's still kicking and living at Sidney's place.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 09:48:30 PM by Ed Schilling » Logged
tooppy
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2019, 07:29:38 AM »

Not worth spiting your beer  Grin Grin

But worth trying a Karlson, I hope you do a day, I am really enthusiastic with the small one I made, each time I play them I am "flabbergasted", not less, by the overall rendition.
Difficult to built ? Not really ! Time consuming ? Yes, a bit more than a plain box but from my experience, very rewarding.
OK, I tried once and I succeed above hope, it is said that small ones are easier , bigger the box, trickier it get ....may be... but I have my ideas on that !
The one I made has NO stuffing at all and I love that ! I can't understand how the sound through a pillow can be clear and lively !
 
If a day you are getting interested, note that I have the entire now closed Karlson forum site. It would be with pleasure I send you a copy.

I understand you are more of an electronician than a carpenter and you prefer cracking your head over a shematic for months.
At least you can do both, not me, electronic is somekind of serbo-croat language to me. I have done an ACA and plan a F5 but that's all.
So an enclosure that can do very well with just a full range and no crossover whatsoever, floats my boat, considering also that any crossover is a deteriorating factor.
The K's are famous to shake you down low , as for HF I hear nuts above 10K probably bbut they go high enough for the majority.

Now that I have done my part to sell you the K's   Grin Grin Grin, thanks for your pleasant reply ED, I appreciate.
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tony
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« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2019, 08:13:21 PM »

Hi Ed! Glad the 1060 lives on! I need to come visit and catch up, and will try to do that soon.
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2019, 08:48:40 PM »

Hey guys, been real busy.

Toopy, please do send me the info!

Tony, I'm always here! Come anytime.

Sidney's speakers were such a success I decided to actually "do something". I put the cabs together today for the  NAHS Mark 4:20 Inspired (Not A Horn Speaker.....).

I have no idea what I'll do with it or where it will go but I reckon (most likely)  I'm just gonna tell folks how to build it. Sidney's speaker is aperiodic, 6 1/2"  with great Heil. She has a FFRS Mark 4:20 Inspired sub with an HSU plate amp (on sale at PE  https://www.parts-express.com/hsu-research-vtf-3-250-watt-subwoofer-plate-amplifier--299-4036 ), it ain't a Crown but is not too bad either for low levels. Hers have pretty darn good bass response w/o sub and with it they are very impressive.

The NAHS will have 2 - 6 1/2"  and a Great Heil. The drivers should allow for  series 1st order xover which should be excellent. Sid's have a conventional parallel xover.

There is little doubt this will be a "good" speaker based on Sid's experiment but will it be great? I have no idea but if The Great Heils had not dropped dramatically in price it would not exist and that is for sure. The Heils were always worth what they cost but now they are almost "free".

Those of you who know me know I'll have them up by tomorrow night and they'll not be "finished" for weeks. Smiley  I'll not waste time making them "pretty" until I know they deserve it!
Ed

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Capt. Z
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2019, 09:33:36 AM »

Looking forward seeing some pictures of it and maybe even a video (maybe next the the Great Heil)
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2019, 09:12:03 PM »

Well, I have gone through many xover points and I think they are pretty much there. The odd thing is that nothing is where I thought it would be. The values, the freq. , neither ended up what I'd guessed at.

They also sound better on the floor it seems. They are very dynamic.

Capt., they are squeezing out sealing material from the front baffle and are quite ugly. I used that stuff because  I wanted to make sure they were well sealed and I could remove them.

I'll shoot an image soon but keep in mind these are just test mules.....the next pair will be very pretty and worthy of an image. Smiley
Ed
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Capt. Z
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2019, 11:06:19 PM »

Morning Ed;

No problem. We just love to see (and hear) what you came up with  Smiley
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2019, 07:21:51 PM »

Hey Capt. just for you! Smiley   I spent all day building state of the art stands for them! Now keep in mind the NAHS Mark 4:20 Inspired  are NOT finished in any way, the stands however are pretty much "done". They are extremely affordable!

Pics in a little while, I'll edit this post.
Ed
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Steve F
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2019, 11:41:38 PM »

Dammit Ed, now you got me messing around with aperiodic design. There’s less written about them than transmission lines. In working on a small dresser top pair for the bedroom.

steve
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2019, 09:57:38 AM »

Steve, here you go......
https://meniscusaudio.com/product/scan-speak-flow-resistor/

You "tune" it (the system and vent) by measuring the impedance peak and adjusting.....you don't need this device but it makes it somewhat easier.
Ed
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 08:40:01 PM by Ed Schilling » Logged
tooppy
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« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2019, 04:16:34 AM »

Ed,

Please see your PM box.
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johnnycopy
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« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2019, 07:30:37 PM »

Not worth spiting your beer  Grin Grin

But worth trying a Karlson, I hope you do a day, I am really enthusiastic with the small one I made, each time I play them I am "flabbergasted", not less, by the overall rendition.
Difficult to built ? Not really ! Time consuming ? Yes, a bit more than a plain box but from my experience, very rewarding.
OK, I tried once and I succeed above hope, it is said that small ones are easier , bigger the box, trickier it get ....may be... but I have my ideas on that !
The one I made has NO stuffing at all and I love that ! I can't understand how the sound through a pillow can be clear and lively !
 
If a day you are getting interested, note that I have the entire now closed Karlson forum site. It would be with pleasure I send you a copy.

I understand you are more of an electronician than a carpenter and you prefer cracking your head over a shematic for months.
At least you can do both, not me, electronic is somekind of serbo-croat language to me. I have done an ACA and plan a F5 but that's all.
So an enclosure that can do very well with just a full range and no crossover whatsoever, floats my boat, considering also that any crossover is a deteriorating factor.
The K's are famous to shake you down low , as for HF I hear nuts above 10K probably bbut they go high enough for the majority.

Now that I have done my part to sell you the K's   Grin Grin Grin, thanks for your pleasant reply ED, I appreciate.

Hey Toopy and Ed,

I have a pair of betsy - not the betsy-k. http://www.wildburroaudio.com/speakers.php

Toopy, Anything you would recommend for a build related to karlson plans?

Ed,  are the betsys a choice for what you are coming Up with?

Thanks guys
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