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Author Topic: The Ultimate Truth lives............  (Read 1909 times)
Ed Schilling
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« on: April 22, 2017, 03:53:10 PM »

Well, I completed the main unit and it works according to plan. Plenty of gain.....dead silent. All that remains is to build the p/s box which is just mounting the connectors when they show up.

I have put the gain stage on one input of 4. It could go on any number of them I reckon. One is good. I can not imagine anyone needing gain on more than one input.

I am very excited but my opinion means nothing. The opinion of the folks I built it for are all that matters to me. I will never be able to afford one! i wish it could stay for HornFest! It can't so  The Beasts will have to do for excitement instead:) Maybe we can fry a few drivers.....I'm sure they will want too Smiley.
Ed
ps......of course every Truth I have ever built can be "upgraded" but if you have enough gain there is simply no need. The Ultimate sounds exactly like the Truth as far as I can tell. The gain is "nice to have" but for many will not be needed. I do not "need" it but I want it....just because it is possible and Hell, I should be able to have  what I actually build! Soon as I hit the lottery I'll build myself one!  I NEVER would have thought of using xformers this way! I'm glad Max (Irv) is smarter than me and pushed me to make it!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 10:36:33 AM by Ed Schilling » Logged
theophile
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2017, 03:16:08 PM »

Almost 3 months down the track, is there more detailed information about this Ed?
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Turntable - Yamaha GT 2000
Cartridge - Soundsmith The Voice (ebony).
Phono stage - Moon LP 5.3
Preamp - Hornshoppe The Truth
Speakers - KRK Expose E8B Studio Monitors
Ed Schilling
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2017, 09:19:28 PM »

Hey Tphile, well sort of. The experiment was a success from my point of view but in the end the gain was not without compromise. The xformers were never supposed to improve anything, as you know. Their purpose was simply to add 6-8 db of gain on one input without affecting the sound in any way regardless of cost. The experiment was not a complete failure but The Truth is so over the top that any compromise is just that. The whole effort is to have guys with not enough gain from their phono stage which they may love not to have to replace it for one with more gain to be able to know The Truth. Going after the one part of the market not open to me..............guys with not enough gain from ether the digital source or their phono. They were "audible". Just barely but they were not "invisible". That was the goal, so in that respect it was a "not good enough attempt". Would I be happy with them? Hell yea but they were not mine and I do not need them......I just want them Smiley

I'd say that I'd be happy with the result of the added gain if I needed it but since I have the Transcendent Phono Stage with 54 db of gain it's a real non issue.

So, the idea is not dead but there is more work to do..............doubling the cost of The Truth for 6-8 db on one input and having ANY compromise in sound is not acceptable.

So, still working on it and there are a lot of ways to skin a cat!

Hope this helps.
Ed


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theophile
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2017, 01:37:01 AM »

I can absolutely appreciate your unwillingness to compromise the capability of The Truth Ed. You stick to your guns Sir. Thank you for your utter honesty and candor.
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Turntable - Yamaha GT 2000
Cartridge - Soundsmith The Voice (ebony).
Phono stage - Moon LP 5.3
Preamp - Hornshoppe The Truth
Speakers - KRK Expose E8B Studio Monitors
Steve F
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2017, 08:59:33 AM »

In my system, which has an active crossover, the Truth couldn't drive the crossover enough to get my amps to provide anything more than background music level. I had the Truth volume pegged. I had to add about 3-4 DB of gain at the crossover to drive the amps. I notice no change in sound quality between stock and with boost in sound quality.  For those who need a little extra, an after Truth stage may be the answer.
I can't see how an input tranny would be better. Certainly not for the money.

Before anybody reads this the wrong way, I love the Truth. In like 99% of systems, it will be damn near perfect.

steve
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theophile
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2017, 05:10:16 AM »

I was re-reading your post Steve. Two things:

I agree if a little gain can be added at the next stage after The Truth, there still can be good results. The result of that doesn't have to be disastrous. I'm willing to concede that not needing gain after The Truth would probably be the demonstrable optimum outcome. However, given a truly great Source feeding into The Truth, the extent of what Ed's marvel can convey of the excellence of the Source would in particular circumstances override the deficiency introduced by the slight gain.

A component can come up with a better net result music and sound-wise if it has access to the highest quality feed possible. For a quality stage which has the option of applying some extra gain after The Truth, that added capability that The Truth excels at, gives the next stage the best for it to work with. An excellent next stage can't provide Caviar if the input is Manure.
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Turntable - Yamaha GT 2000
Cartridge - Soundsmith The Voice (ebony).
Phono stage - Moon LP 5.3
Preamp - Hornshoppe The Truth
Speakers - KRK Expose E8B Studio Monitors
derockster
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2017, 11:19:32 AM »

Hi All,

A few months ago I was on the verge of purchasing the Truth, I even had a telephone conversation with Ed and was all set to take the plunge until I read the below statement:

In my system, which has an active crossover, the Truth couldn't drive the crossover enough to get my amps to provide anything more than background music level. I had the Truth volume pegged. I had to add about 3-4 DB of gain at the crossover to drive the amps. I notice no change in sound quality between stock and with boost in sound quality.  For those who need a little extra, an after Truth stage may be the answer.
I can't see how an input tranny would be better. Certainly not for the money.

My system is as follows:

(1) Transport
(2) DAC
(3) Preamp
(4) Subwoofer
(5) Active Crossover
(6) Sub Amp
(7) Horn Amp

My system runs as stated above with the preamp going directly into my Muse Model 18 subwoofer before going to the crossover.
Will I experience the same lack of output as stated above if I go with the Truth preamp?

Regards

Derockster
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2017, 03:21:03 PM »

Well, I never really understood Steve's post but that is ok. I run an active xover some of the time  and gain has never been an issue, as a matter of fact I have more gain with it. The system is.........DAC into Truth, Truth into active x-over (Boozehound Labs) output of active into the LF and HF amps which are directly hooked to 126 and Heil.

I have no idea why Steve's xovers require more drive than his DAC can supply. I say that because The Truth is very close to unity gain. It also can put out at least 1/4 amp of current, much more than most line stages and DACs. If he plugged his DAC directly into the active xover would there be enough "drive"? My guess is that it would go to "11", if not, well, something is fundamentally wrong. I may be missing something?

I also do not understand your connections either! Why would the preamp go into a Sub before the active xover? I would think.....DAC into pre amp, preamp into active xover, active xover to sub amp which is connected to Sub, and then also the active hooked to Horn amp.

This hookup will have plenty of gain. I can see no reason at all why a pre amp would go into a sub!

One last thought, many guys are running active systems and not experiencing what Steve described!
Hope this helps.
Ed
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Steve F
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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2017, 05:55:38 PM »

Ed, My system's problem was that the power amps needed more drive that the Truth being fed by either the DAC or TS phono pre could provide when my crossover was set unity gain. I really could peg the volume control without clipping the amps. There was no 11. Now I didn't plug any devices directly into the crossover for comparison, just in case a woofer cone would get shot across my room. I simply raised the output on the crossover, finally deciding about 6 DB was about right. I suspect my power amps were the issue. In any case, the system sounds great, and I'm happy.
Steve

Edit: I doubt another preamp would have made a difference. And no I never felt the need to check.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 06:02:40 PM by Steve F » Logged
derockster
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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2017, 06:34:34 PM »

Hi All,

Hook up aside, I simply wanted to be sure that it would work in my system.
Seems another call to Ed is forthcoming.

Regards

Derockster
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Steve F
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2017, 07:43:00 PM »

Hey Derockster, I'm running an usual system. Don't take my experience as typical. It just took awhile to dial things in. Let me state the Truth works fine; damn near nothing else comes close. I ran mine with a quality solid state ATI amp in my prior system, and my son borrowed it for use in his system driving a Quicksilver tube amp. He liked it so much I had a tough time getting it back!! Purchase and fear not. Take care.
Steve
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