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Author Topic: Truth with gain, closer to reality!  (Read 1412 times)
Ed Schilling
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« on: March 22, 2017, 11:28:52 AM »

Well, I had a nice conversation with Mr. Salvatore today. He outlined what needs to done as far as using them ( I've never messed with this type of xformer or any other for audio)  and he gave me the pins to use for the gain we are after. It is going to be 8db. At this point I've thought about it for a couple hours and will build the test mule over the weekend when I should be relaxing Smiley.

This version will have 2 power supplys, possibly 3...........every thing else will be pretty much the same. One input or it could be all will have 8db of gain via a buffered xformer. This input will supply gain to any source. A phono stage will still be needed to get the RIAA equalization, of course but we believe that the 8db will allow almost all to supply enough gain for the Truth to drive the amps to full output like a typical source does.

I know 50db is plenty for a phono stage so this version should allow a 40db phono stage to be fine as well. 8db was chosen for a couple reasons but that is another story!

I should know by Sunday if it all works!
Ed
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 11:41:49 AM by Ed Schilling » Logged
Steve F
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2017, 06:46:48 AM »

Update, or too soon to ask?
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2017, 10:40:26 PM »

Hey Steve, things went sideways. Thurs. night the door handle on Sid's car broke. Drivers inside. She had to leave Sat around 2:00. Late Fri. after working I tried to jury-rig it. FAil. Had already ordered a new handle to be here Sat. but the problem was the cable had broke not the handle. Got new handle and rigged the broken cable to it, this worked .....got all this finished about 2:00 Sat. By then I was done!  All last week Helen was off while Sid. was here for spring break.......she was sick as Hell the whole time. Flu? She's just now getting better.............and I'm now sick.

I need to get my work done before I tackle it again..........probably be next weekend considering how I feel. The door handle and getting sick took all my free time this weekend.

I think it will be fine but I simply must get the units done that are on the list first unless I'm burning my free time on the weekend and I burned it all up last weekend!
Ed
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2017, 12:38:29 PM »

It lives! I need to build the other channel. Back in a while!
Ed
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2017, 02:01:02 PM »

Second channel running! There is noise due to sitting in a cardboard box and no shielded cables but...........Holy Shit! My 1.2 volt Dragonfly now has plenty of output.

Evaluating the sound will take time...Radar Love sounds "normal" and fantastic and will now play at ear bleeding levels! I had high hopes but low expectations......my expectations have been exceeded by a great margin!
Ed
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Henry
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2017, 03:29:46 PM »

Looks good Ed.  Out of curiosity, have you tried using that gain on higher voltage devices? 

Leave it to Ed to make something go to "11".   Grin
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theophile
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2017, 03:57:43 PM »

Could I order the first one you make?
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Turntable - Yamaha GT 2000
Cartridge - Soundsmith The Voice (ebony).
Phono stage - Moon LP 5.3
Preamp - Hornshoppe The Truth
Speakers - KRK Expose E8B Studio Monitors
derockster
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2017, 03:11:04 PM »

Hi All,

Is this Truth with gain primarily for vinyl reproduction?
Are those of us with CD only playback safe with the Truth as is?

Regards

Cleaton
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2017, 09:50:43 PM »

Hey guys, been stupid busy!
Henry, yep, no issues with any source....just an increase in gain!

Theophile, you can have the second one if you wish since the first one was/is  a "contract job". Keep in mind it can be added outboard with little if any compromise in sound.

Derockster, you should not need it for line level sources.  It is most useful for vinyl when a phono stage has less than 50 db of gain. For most folks there is no need for it....if they have a well matched system. That means enough gain from source to drive the power amps, which should always be the case in a properly matched system!

This is a very expensive way to get gain but is probably the very best way as far as performance........it will allow The Truth to work in any system without sonic compromise.

The input impedance is still infinite and the output impedance is still 3 ohms. The "transparency" is there... I see no downside, only the benefit of 8db of gain!
Ed
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 09:56:44 PM by Ed Schilling » Logged
Steve F
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« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2017, 12:35:39 PM »

Sounds pretty much as expected. Question: Did you go with a dual power supply? I'm kinda' thinking that it didn't really matter.
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2017, 06:24:01 PM »

Update. Well, this thing is going to be very expensive. It also will have the best parts available and there will be no "economy version". The prototype will be exactly like any or all that come after it. No substitutions. Mono crystal wire, expensive fancy selector switch (for reliability and to be used as a "mute", not for sonics) , outboard 3 power supplies. handwound (in Italy) "super permalloy" transformers. One possible option is to have the gain on all inputs but this is not needed and will most likely be just on one input. It is not "better" with the gain, it is just not worse as far as sonics. That is the goal. To preserve the purity but with the benefit of enough gain to make almost all sources work with most all amplifiers. I could use lesser xformers but that would make no sense...these are the best in the world at any price, I'm told by folks I trust. Anything lesser will not be "good enough".

It seems we have succeeded.

Now the bad. The xformers are more than 500 bucks each. I can envision that it will cost at least 3K by the time it's said and done. I may only build the one I have been "commissioned to build". For many folks The Truth and a "high quality" phono stage with at least 50 db of gain may be a better bargain.....then again, if a fellow has a stupid good phono stage but not enough gain it may be a very good solution. I just do not know.

The xformers and buffer stage can be added outboard to all units but due to the cost of the xformers it may not be (again) better than simply getting an appropriate output source or phono stage.

If the prototype gets a review (not a given) and truly is as transparent and good as the "normal" Truth I have promised to make The Ultimate Truth exactly as reviewed, no substitutions because any subs would be a different product.

No one that has enough output should be dying to "upgrade"! I do not need the gain.

Hope this helps and I should have the thing working in a month or so......have to build the ones on the books first!
Ed


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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2017, 09:36:30 PM »

I might should mention that some time ago I had some boards made for the OPA 2604 IC to use as a gain stage. I sent one out and I believe it "worked fine". It did for me. The purpose was to (again) get enough gain for less than 50db phono stages. It works quite well. The 2604 is a good sounding IC.

I can not say or even have an opinion as to whether it is even close to the xformer Ultimate Truth. I doubt it is but it could be "close enough", maybe I'll send the first one off for someone more able to figure it out than me Smiley. The Ultimate is just that. The best I can do for any amount of money on anything that matters.

The 2604 gain stage can also be added outboard. When I get done with what is on the books I'll put another together but that will be after I have built The Ultimate Truth. The Ultimate is a big project for me.....at least now I know the concept  works!

I fear that the choice between "the best available" and "damn, are you sure this is not as good as it gets" will depend on the cost vs. the compromise. For many the Ultimate will be just that...for others the gain of the 2604 circuit may very well be as good as they could imagine or need to play vinyl using The Truth and a 40 db phono stage. For fellows with insane (in a good way) vinyl rigs the xformers are the only choice.

As always, everything I have ever built or sold can be "upgraded" to what ever is current. As of now.....all y'all have the most current!
Ed

« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 09:41:04 PM by Ed Schilling » Logged
Steve F
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2017, 04:35:16 PM »

Wow. Five hundred plus for each transformer, an Italian specialty product. Perhaps hand wound by the pontiff himself?
Man, I can see the need if you don't have enough gain, but I can't imagine anything being a significant improvement over the Truth and TS phono stage. I hope it gets a review.
Steve
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2017, 06:18:57 PM »

Hey Steve, yep a LOT of money....they are "super permalloy" construction. Here is a link I found......   it seems "super permalloy" is expensive!

http://www.ebay.ph/itm/UTC-MC-step-up-transformer-for-all-tonearm-carts-super-Permalloy-core-/282152491204

http://www.reade.com/products/permalloy-ni-fe-mo-alloys-powder-wire-sheet

If a transformer is the way to get gain then a buffered one like I have is maybe the best to be had...that was the goal! Keep the sonics the same but add gain without regard to cost.
Ed

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Henry
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« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2017, 01:03:25 AM »

Ed, put me in the queue for a regular Truth with two inputs.  No hurries or worries.  Wink
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