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Author Topic: I fixed the last little detail...phono stages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 4291 times)
Ed Schilling
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« on: April 08, 2016, 02:35:49 PM »

Well, the last little thing was the lack of gain for fellows playing vinyl. With The Truth having no gain,  a high output phono stage and or cartridge  is needed to get to "11". Most with gain up to 60db or so are expensive it seems. The U-Turn Audio (really good!) And the Boozehound labs both have around 40 db. Depending on your cartridge output this is simply (for most guys) not enough for The Truth to reach "11".

It seems to be all over now, boys. I've built a 40 db gain stage to go between the phono stage you already have and the Truth. WHAT!? BLASPHEMY!!!  Nope, I'm not about to re-invent the wheel  and try and build a phono stage with "perfect" RIAA Eq. and 60 db of gain! It is much easier to build a gain stage to amplify what you already own that does that. So I did. I chose another obsolete but plentiful IC I have been using for 25 years. The distortion of the chip is "not measurable by conventional equipment" or so they say......slew rate is very high...bandwidth is crazy.

The circuit is dirt simple and pretty much noise free, it will add none of it's own.  It will simply amplify the noise in what you have. It will not fix your hum. What it will do is allow your phono stage of pretty much any gain drive the Truth to "full output".

I fixed everything needed to play vinyl at live levels for anyone with The Truth that already has a phono stage that does not have enough output.

Ed

« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 02:37:31 PM by Ed Schilling » Logged
Steve F
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2016, 10:59:57 PM »

Ed,
Can the gain be set for one set of inputs? I use Bruce's phono pre which has 52 Db of gain. Second question. Can the gain of the intermediate stage be adjusted down a bit? Third question. Price?
steve



PS: Since you have mine in the shop, we gotta' talk or do emails. I'm interested.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 11:08:30 PM by Steve F » Logged
Ed Schilling
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2016, 11:59:22 PM »

Dang Steve, it's 2:45am.........I'm building shit and you're up too? WTF? We must be crazy!

I imagine any thing is possible with regard to input. Sorta makes my head hurt how to make that work with no issues, more than it hurt making the damn thing!

You may not need squat with 50 db of gain....let's just wait and see. I just finished lowering the gain to 20db. A success. I only want what I need. Less is more....with 40 or more it will amplify EVERY bit of noise you have and do it with enough gain to clip the Truth...simply overkill. It will never need 40 but switchable between 10, 20 and 30 might be nice and is easily possible........oh, shit, I have all I need to do that and it's only 3 am and I can sleep until at least 9. Bed at 5....wide open at 9...yea, that is the ticket to get this done!

As to price, ha, it'll be like everything I do, almost free for what you get Smiley

I'm beating my way toward your upgrade!
Ed
**EDIT*** I'm not about to work on "important" stuff this late......would not take a chance on screwing up worse than I usually do. This time of night is when I "play'.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 12:01:40 AM by Ed Schilling » Logged
Henry
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2016, 05:54:14 AM »

2:45 am for you, but remember, Steve is near the evil left coast.

Nice idea about the new gain device.  I seem to have enough gain already, so I'll probably opt out.  If it ain't broke...  Smiley
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Steve F
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2016, 06:58:24 AM »

Ed, Henry,

This time of year I'm on left coast time. AZ is a cranky place that stays on standard time all year round. Now that doesn't mean that I won't be up at 2:45am around here. I'm a night owl.

The very best line stage I know of, besides yours, has 6DB of gain. The damn thing can run unity gain as a choice, but only by internal dip switches. Try that at at 4am after a few beers. Doesn't Bruce use about 12DB? Switching 6-12-18 or thereabouts would be crazy good. You are on to something.

Are we crazy? Too late, everybody knows.

steve
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2016, 10:39:14 AM »

I can say this for a fact....I have had MUCH,MUCH better record players than what I have now (just ask Henry Smiley ) I have had MUCH better phono stages and as to the current cart.? It's a 20 buck AT.

There is a MAJOR problem happening......my vinyl has NEVER sounded this good. Oh, sure the fancy table would track a record with a 1/2" warp in it and this one will bounce the needle on that record, but DAMN does the system sound good. I put on a fancy Grado (Black G1+)....it did not last long, the crappy AT was clearly better in this system.

As Mac said yesterday...."it sounds almost like digital"...LOL. Those of you who make the trip will hear for yourself....and be shocked. I am.

Ed
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Henry
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2016, 11:12:19 AM »

Just wait until your AT440 comes home.  That should be a good day.  Grin
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Steve F
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2016, 04:52:51 PM »

Ed,

Enquiring minds want to know. What is your current phono setup? There are some good low cost systems out there.
When is the best time to call Monday?

steve
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Capt. Z
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2016, 11:43:02 PM »

Well, a cartridge from AT for a little over $ 20 => AT95E. I have hear it in Ed's system and it ROCKS and is extremely musical.
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Capt. Z
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2016, 04:11:52 AM »

So, the new name of the new Truth: Gained Truth  Grin Grin Grin

And for the people living in the so called 'Bible Belt' we could call it the 'Amplified Truth'  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 04:21:44 AM by Capt. Z » Logged
Ed Schilling
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2016, 10:10:04 AM »

Thanks guys! Steve, call anytime. Dieter, trumpet on the way Smiley!

I lowered the gain to ~20 db but I think 30 will be the ticket. 40 is high enough to amplify hum from the phono stage! It also will allow 'live" levels at which point the hum is so far down it is inaudible except between songs. I see no reason to have that much gain. We'll see how 30 goes................

Frampton Live is simply sublime............LA woman killer....Rod Stewart..."Attractive female wanted" is crazy....the background vocals are stunning and when someone "howls" (as I call it) it is so pure and clean it will make your hair stand on end.

The current table is the U-Turn with acrylic platter and the cheap AT cart.  My AR wiring finally gave up. The phono stage is the U-Turn or the Boozehound, both are kille but both only have 40 db of gain so I built the "Muscle"  for them and am ecstatic at how good it works.....I knew it would "work" but was not sure how it would "sound". You'll not know it's there except for the improved gain.

More to come!
Ed
ps......any phono with >50 db will not need The Muscle.
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Steve F
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2016, 01:26:08 PM »

Had a feeling it was a U-Turn. Since I am in love with Bruce's phono stage, and it is over 50Db I guess I don't need extra muscle. I like the name though.

I'll call on Monday.

Steve
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2016, 02:12:48 PM »

Steve, the AR wiring died and I simply don't have time to screw with it and fix it, which of course I will but it's "complicated". I figured if Randy was advertising them it's probably decent. He has them on his site and I tried to order from him but it was just a link and kicked me to their site.

They sent it with cart. grounds reversed which made me chase "hum" that did not exist! It has high rumble..............but DAMN...for anyone that thinks it takes a fortune and fancy equipment and pristine records to hear the "magic" will only need about 20 seconds listening to my system to realize how flawed that thinking is. 20 seconds, tops. And pretty much with any record I have (so far) regardless of how shitty it looks or how much noise it has. The "magic" is here with the least expensive rig I have ever had. WTF!?
Ed

edit***** 30db seems to be the "sweet spot".
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 02:15:00 PM by Ed Schilling » Logged
Capt. Z
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2016, 03:05:13 PM »

Many times the magic lays in the simplicity of things.

I recently bought a old Wega TT and a lower cost Ortofon cartridge, costing only 10th of my High End TT set up, but makes me smile every time I use it, where the other one (the expensive one) leaves me wanting more.
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2016, 10:18:49 PM »

Ok, since about 8:00 tonight I have been trying to find just one stinking record that sounds bad. It's just about 1:00. I have failed miserably. Regardless of the condition or age they all sound spectacular. I have no explanation at all. Helen was sitting over there and singing to the music off and on for a couple hours while messing with her computer! She NEVER does that unless things are "just right".

This is without a doubt the worst vinyl system I have ever had. Tapping the plinth is like beating a drum through the speakers. The rumble is atrocious. It has no ground wire. Adding some "Slick2000" E.W.S. (extreme weapons lubricant) to the bearing reduced the friction DRAMATICALLY...the platter will spin for minutes with a good start. Everything about it is "cheap".

I sure wish it was not THE BEST sounding rig I've ever had. We've all had cartridges that cost more. More hum, rumble, cheapness......and the BEST sound from ALL my records I've ever had. WTF!?

I thought I was going to defeat it with my original abused, worn out Led Zeppelin II, Dammit....it NEVER sounded like this. Sure...pops, scratches, hum, rumble and the most musical I've ever heard.

Hell, Captain Beefheart "Clear Spot" sounded like I've never heard it before. I'm stunned and in shock. The combination going on here is crazy and defies logic. Some of you will hear it in a couple weeks and you'll freak out. It will make no more sense  than a bald, giant,  wart covered, fully tattooed, skinny jean wearing woman can be the most beautiful creature you ever saw. Not a bit more sense.

I have no idea if the sound can be "duplicated" so do not take this as an endorsement of the TT or anything else, at this point. 
Ed

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