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Author Topic: No gain! Any pain?  (Read 6248 times)
tfoust1
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« on: October 06, 2013, 12:03:48 PM »

I'm curious to know how a Hi-Fi scholar would know if his system needed gain and if so how much.  It has been brought out that The Truth provides no gain but is followed quickly with how unimportant that is.  How do you know if you need gain?  And if you did, wouldn't it be to your advantage to change your system to utilize the benefits The Truth offers?
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2013, 12:37:05 PM »

Hey Terry, I usually tell guys.....do not actually do this!!!!!!  Imagine if you plugged your source directly into your power amp and hit "play", what would happen? Would it be "loud enough" and possibly break your speakers? If so, then you do not need gain. Most of the time every pre amp in the world is being used as an attenuator. If you need gain then the system is poorly matched, IMO. The "lack of dynamics" people experience in "passive" pre amps has nothing to do with gain but is usually caused by impedance mismatch. Gain does NOT insure dynamics! The Truth, btw, is an active device and does not suffer from a "lack of dynamics" regardless of the impedance's of anything hooked to it.
Hope this helps.
Ed
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tfoust1
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2013, 12:57:13 PM »

Just as I suspected!
I have been curious as to what would happen if a source component were connected directly to an amp without an attenuator but was afraid to try it.  That'll have to remain in the unsolved mystery file.

The description of The Truth on the Horn Shoppe web site states it doesn't have the problems inherent with a passive attenuator.  Never having used one I wonder what those shortcomings are?
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Pit Hinder
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2013, 11:08:01 AM »

Terry - quite a few preamps make the firm's own power amps sound "punchier" by constantly driving them nearly into clipping.
Perfekte Scheisse, if you allow me to say it in German.

Pit
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Ed Schilling
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2013, 01:00:02 PM »

Terry, it's not a mystery, you'd get to buy some new drivers Smiley

Only have a minute........passive means different things to different people. Some call a pre amp (but they are not really "pre amps", but just for ease of description the term is used) passive if it has no gain even if it has active components and buffers (The Truth is like this). A "true" passive will have no active components or buffers or gain.

The problems are numerous.......inability to use long cables and impedance issues between source, it and the power amp are two There is tons of stuff about passive pre amp problems. The problems are with true passives and those problems are cured with buffering or buffering with gain (a typical "active" pre amp).

The Truth has no gain because it is seldom needed and never needed if the source has a "normal" output and the power amp has a "normal" input sensitivity. It does have better buffering than almost anything however and this is an important piece of the puzzle.

Hope this helps.
Ed
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 01:01:56 PM by Ed Schilling » Logged
tfoust1
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2013, 02:01:59 PM »

That does help.

My head is spinning with all I've read about The Truth, Naked Truth and preamps. 

I only have two systems that I really listen to with much concentration.  In my office music plays from my desktop computer to a Van Alstine DAC to a TSGG pre then to a TS Mini Beast and on to Klipsch K-horns.  I read someone's comment that digital attenuation is not as good as analog so I keep the software volume at max and adjust with the pot on the GG.  I put it a remote volume control so I don't have to get up.

At home I listen to the satellite box or Apple TV streaming from my Ipad through a McIntosh surround processor then to a TSGG and on to a Van Alstine power amp.

The DAC at the office has no volume pot and if it's true that digital attenuation is to be avoided I need the GG to control volume at the office.  At home however it seems I don't even need a pre because all the input is digital and is processed by the Mac which does have a volume pot (w/remote).

For those that have used The Truth, tell me if you believe there would be an improvement inserting a Naked Truth in the home system between the surround processor and the power amp or would I be better off just taking the pre out and connecting the surround to the amp.  How much do the buffers help the quality of the music?

From reading forum postings it seems to be clear that a Naked Truth between the office DAC and the amp would be an improvement.  Though I would miss that remote pretty badly.
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Steve F
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 03:46:03 PM »

I can't comment about use with surround processors. I find them all fatiguing. I just feed movies through my stereo systems. I really like my naked truth. It did edge out my Grid, and the Grid edges out damn near everything else. The Grid has a <200 Ohm output which is excellent. Most tube guys consider about 500 Ohms to be low impedance. There are only a couple of other preamps that IMO compare. They are both solid state. They all have very low <30 Ohm output impedances. ( BTW one is no longer in production, and the other costs about $2K.) I have had no problems with lack of gain. I prefer the NT for movies and Xxxx for music, but it's so close, as either works great. If you buy from Ed, you aren't taking any chances. He wants you to be happy with his product.  I'd buy it again.

Steve.  Cool
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Capt. Z
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2013, 12:31:36 AM »

If you buy from Ed, you aren't taking any chances. He wants you to be happy with his product.  I'd buy it again.

Steve.  Cool

Ed probably would take the Truth back, if you were not satisfied with it. But than he knows, you will not send it back.  Grin Grin Grin
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Pit Hinder
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2013, 07:19:55 AM »

Dieter, I don't know what church you serve.
But Radio Vatican on your system because of an impedance mismatch...saints have become heretics for lesser reasons.

 Cry Pit
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tfoust1
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2013, 07:21:43 AM »

Thanks for your comments.

I'm determined to try it out.  I just have to sell something first.

I have plenty on hand from previous learning experiences.
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Capt. Z
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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2013, 07:23:20 AM »

Hi Pit;

Ich bin ein Freikirchler.
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theophile
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2013, 11:15:18 PM »

Mmmmmm. Fries.   Wink
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Turntable - Yamaha GT 2000
Cartridge - Soundsmith The Voice (ebony).
Phono stage - Moon LP 5.3
Preamp - Hornshoppe The Truth
Speakers - KRK Expose E8B Studio Monitors
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