The Hornshoppe Forum

General Category => The Truth Pre Amp => Topic started by: Martin1 on November 12, 2017, 02:47:46 PM



Title: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Martin1 on November 12, 2017, 02:47:46 PM
Hello, My name is Martin and i recently bought a the Truth preamp. My amp recently got broke down and even though i am trying to repair it..i think i won't be able to do that. It is turning too expensive to do so, so i think i won't be able to afford to repair it. SO i am trying to find a substitute, preferably a power amp (not integrated) so i can take best advantage of the Truth preamp...Mr Schilling has recommended me to write to the forum and ask the question...what amp or power amp would you recommend to use with the truth in order to get a very good system, and if possible, as affordable as possible. My current loudspeaker is the audio physic virgo with audio physic luna subwoofer. They are rated at 87db, 20 to 150 watt. Also i might get a quad esl-63...and a quad 405 amp...would that be good?. Other options i am considering:
a) nad c350. old and affordable and got good reviews. b) clone made in china based on mark levinson ml-2, or dartzeel nhb-108. but no way to know how god they are. the dartzeel there are some reviews on aliexpress. c) some affordable tube amp...like the
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HIFI-EXQUIS-manufacturer-6n2-FU32-tube-amplifier-with-headphone-output-Handmade-welding-scaffolding-standard-version/2049087012.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.32.0K5CAG&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10065_10151_10130_10068_436_10136_10137_10157_10060_10138_10155_10062_10156_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_100032_100033_100031_10099_10103_10102_10096_10147_10052_10053_10050_10107_10142_10051_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10178_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10181_10183_10182_10185_10078_10079_10073_10123,searchweb201603_2,ppcSwitch_5_ppcChannel&btsid=568ecf80-3b49-483b-a66f-cab2132837ba&algo_expid=a3f7358b-02e1-4100-a572-284fce686477-4&algo_pvid=a3f7358b-02e1-4100-a572-284fce686477
 in aliexpress. but it has low watt output around 4 watts per channel.

any opinions or what has worked would be very welcome...thank you very much, martin


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Martin1 on November 12, 2017, 02:49:49 PM
another option i forgot to mention is a version of the hiraga class a amp, available as diy projects......there are in 8 watt 14 watt 20 watt....


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Henry on November 12, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
Hey Martin, what amp will you be replacing... and did you like it? 


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Martin1 on November 14, 2017, 05:14:50 PM
i am replacing a gryphon callisto 2200...i bought many years ago thinking it would had all the power i would ever need, very well built, and very good sound quality...the only thing it turned out to be true was the first one,,,powerwise i think it was ok..reliability ok until now and it is prohibitively expensive to repair...(i am still trying..)and the sound quality was ok but i wasn't enamoured of it at all...SO my answer is no, i did not like it...it wasn't close to sound as real classical concerts i have experienced (Small venues)....NOw i am trying on a quad 405..i heard only once and i think it was ok...musical..maybe not very detailed whatever that means...not heard long enough to get a better idea of how it sounds...


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Martin1 on November 14, 2017, 06:20:12 PM
i am reading about the benchmark nhb2..any experiences with it? maybe too expensive for me ( i would liek to spend mess of 1000 if possible at all), specially with shipping and import duties, but i would like to know if it could be a good option...


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Henry on November 14, 2017, 08:49:06 PM
Martin, I have an Audio by van Alstine (AVA) Ultravalve and really like it.  It's a little over your budget, but makes a healthy 35 tube watts per channel and works well with the Truth.  It seems like 100 watts of solid state. 

Also, AVA makes solid state amps that may be good choices for you as well.  They have been around for decades and make good, reasonably priced, no frills equipment in the good ol' USA.  Check out their web site to see if anything interests you and talk to Frank van Alstine via email or phone.  He can tell you which product may work best for you.

I'm sure others have some thoughts on this and can give some recommendations.  As Ed says, choices are bad...  ;D


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: sonic on November 15, 2017, 10:21:13 AM
i am reading about the benchmark nhb2..any experiences with it? maybe too expensive for me
Benchmark is overpriced audio jewelry, meaning that it's for the looks and bragging rights.  You won't be getting better audible sound.

Your Audio Physic Virgo speakers are rather power (amperage) hungry speakers.  Your late Gryphon Callisto has good specs in terms of low impedance output.  Amp you want is something that's stable at low impedance.  Commercial amps (AKA PA amp) may be what you want to look into.  Some of them are passive cooling (no fan) so it can work well in home audio setting.  Also, those PA amps are not as expensive as audio jewelries like Benchmark.  Bhringer A500 is one example.


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Martin1 on November 21, 2017, 05:25:34 PM
Hello, THank you for the suggestions. I looked on Van Alstine site and his products look very interesting, although maybe out of my initial budget. Regarding the Behringer a500 i see very good reviews..but i have the ultracurve pro deq2496 equalizer and its effect on the audio chain is horrible. I bought it many years ago thinking it would be quite transparent and maybe able to equalize the music acceptably in my room, and the effect on the sound is really ghastly...maybe that is the effect of all equalizers. So i am reluctant to try another behringer product..but i see it has very good opinions online, and it is really affordable even if new...Do you have direct experience with it and it performs very well with the Thruth preamp? I see thought it does not need a preamp, so i do not like two preamps in the audio chain...Also i do not know how important is being AB instead of just A class amp, although i understand the power has to be much lower for class a.. Thank you, Martin


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Martin1 on November 21, 2017, 05:26:53 PM
I could grab a nad c350..i am going to test it...but the balance button is not working properly...


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Henry on November 21, 2017, 10:59:44 PM
Martin, if you want to take a chance, this guy is making finished big power class D amps using a new module from Icepower (B&O).  I think it has 800 wpc into 8 ohms at 1% thd.  I don't know real world wattage numbers at decent distortion levels.

This is new, so there aren't any reviews, but the few guys that have heard it claim it to be dynamic, accurate and not nasty in the high frequency range.  The finished amp is $900 plus $50 for shipping.  He's taking orders for the fourth lot to be shipped in January. 

Read about it at AC forum and don't get caught up in the talk about kits; he's only making assembled amps now for only $200 over the kit price.  They are easily assembled.  Also, you can order better connectors and wire, but a tricked out amp would be substantially more $$$.

I bought a kit (earlier in the sale) for the hell of it since it seems I can sell it if it isn't working well for me. ;)  I'm still not convinced the highs are going to suit me.  It should arrive in a few weeks once the chassis is complete and in the seller's hands.

You can read about it here and there's a link to a long forum thread:
https://www.miveraaudio.com/ (https://www.miveraaudio.com/)


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: sonic on November 22, 2017, 09:56:47 AM
i am reluctant to try another behringer product..
It was just one example of amp that's stable at low impedance.  There are many others, some expensive, some cheap.  Just make sure it can handle 3 Ohm impedance since your speakers have somewhat of high current demand in the upper bass to mid frequency region which our hearing is very sensitive to.

(https://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/APVFIG1.jpg)


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Ed Schilling on November 22, 2017, 11:38:34 PM
This one "looks" really good and very inexpensive. Plenty of power. Damping factor and S/N ratio both look pretty good. They say it works with their passive line stage.......there you go!
Ed
http://www.schiit.com/products/vidar


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Henry on March 22, 2018, 09:35:00 PM
I have to jump in once again.  The Mivera amp is a great buy.  A great amp board by B&O mounted into a nice case for under $!k.  It loves the Truth. 

This is a taste of the best for drive-thru prices.

You will need to state that you want the Takachi case.  It's $899 assembled.  The combo will amaze.


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Ed Schilling on March 22, 2018, 11:00:47 PM
Link please! :)
Ed


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Capt. Z on March 23, 2018, 04:19:21 AM
Martin. Have you decided on what amp to get?


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Henry on March 23, 2018, 11:49:20 AM
Link please! :)
Ed

Here you go: https://www.miveraaudio.com/ (https://www.miveraaudio.com/)

It isn't listed in his shop, so you just leave a message and he'll reply with the info.

Here's a link to the thread on ac regarding this version: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156447.40 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156447.40)


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Martin1 on March 23, 2018, 03:42:24 PM
thanks to all for the suggestions...i have not decided yet..i am tying to repair the old integrated amp i had..i was told it was beyond repair,but now it is in a repair shop and they are trying it ...it is difficult though they say due to much wrongdoing from other repair shops they say..it is a gryphon callisto. But with that i lose the advantage of the truth....i have been trying the nad c350 and the quad 405...maybe the latter is better. not much difference though (always using the truth as a preamp..the pre of the nad c350 can be disabled..it has a power in). I used the quad 34 as a preamp...and the truth is better i think...so i wonder if the power amp quad 405 is also appropriate for the truth...i think it is quite ok and i am doing with that unless i see an amp it really seems better option..I also enquired about Romeyn amps..which i think use a module similar to the ICE power suggested by Henry...For lack of time i haven't dealt more into it. But it seemed a good option..anyone had an experience with a Romeyn amp? ANother option i considered is buying a set amp...one Ed suggested from aliexpress which is very very affordable (forgot th emodel, but i can find out)...or the coincident frankenstein (used) which is much more expensive but a good deal i think compared to new...but i never heard any of those, nor a set amp...and 8 amps maybe are not adequate for the 87-89db speakers i have (audio physic virgo mainly and thiel cs 2.3 as an option)...so i am mired in this situation unable to decide or just let it go and think that with the quad 405+truth i am well served enough..


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Henry on March 25, 2018, 12:46:34 PM
Here's the updated web address for the Mivera amp: https://www.miveraaudio.com/product-page/takachi-case-icepower-1200as2-sale (https://www.miveraaudio.com/product-page/takachi-case-icepower-1200as2-sale)


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Martin1 on April 09, 2018, 01:53:34 AM
Hello Henry, I follow the link but it says product not found...I am also following the Romeyn amps..based in an HYpex module....do you know how they compare? ANd just in case you know: I read a SET amp is something special etc...ANd i am following an used Coincident Frankenstein MkII..it is only 8 watts though...do you have any experience in single ended SET and what is your opinion compared to the mivera? Thanky you, martin


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Henry on April 09, 2018, 03:54:11 PM
Hello Henry, I follow the link but it says product not found...I am also following the Romeyn amps..based in an HYpex module....do you know how they compare? ANd just in case you know: I read a SET amp is something special etc...ANd i am following an used Coincident Frankenstein MkII..it is only 8 watts though...do you have any experience in single ended SET and what is your opinion compared to the mivera? Thanky you, martin
Hey Martin, Yes it doesn't exist as he's making his own enclosures that are nicer and heavier now... and of course more expensive.  The insides are the same and you can see them if you click on the Icepower Shop tab at the top.  He has a standard and premium version.  I have the premium parts except for the binding posts.  I think the two are $1500 and $1800 respectively now.

Based on what I've read, I'd shy away from the hypex technology.

SETs are really nice and smooth with great midrange.  Nice with Horns.  They tend to lack bass resolution and slam, but they are delightful in many ways.  SETs sound natural and right imparting a non-fatiguing ease to music. I have a couple in the house and won't give them up.  I have two el-84 and one 300b . The 300b is a great tube IMO, but pricey.

Also, many here have Transcendent Sound OTLs that offer more solid state bass accuracy.  And don't discount the Amp Camp Amp.  diyAudio had them in stock for about two days, then sold out again.  They should be back soon and you can get on the notification list.  Easy to build and now in one chassis.  Great with Horns and well under $1000. You could buy a kit and chassis and pay someone to assemble it and still be well within budget. https://diyaudiostore.com/collections/kits/products/amp-camp-amp-kit?variant=7072933085218
If you decide the ACA is for you, grab a chassis (April 15) and then jump on the parts when they notify you.

I haven't heard the Coincident amps, but I've read good things about them.

I'm using the Mivera amp with big Bozaks and the Ultravalve with the Horns. 

As Ed says: "Choices are bad."  :)


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Henry on April 09, 2018, 10:07:39 PM
Martin, I re-read your first post and checked into your speakers with the upper 80's efficiency rating.  I'd recommend either the Ultravalve or Mivera amp of the ones which I'm familiar.  I just don't think you'll find the ACA nor a low-powered SET adequate to push them as needed.

Best of luck, Henry


Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: tooppy on April 19, 2018, 12:19:54 PM
Ed....congratulations, I am very very very happy for you !
You deserve it man !

Do you think you can built one Truth into the "new" Am-Camp actual casing ?
Here is the link :

https://www.modushop.biz/site/index.php?route=product/search&search=amp%20camp

The main site is here, you probably know it, they have knobs also :

http://www.hifi2000.it/default.asp?Langid=1

I bought a the amp-camp kit but the casing was from this link as I am a European, that is where the DYI forum advised me to buy.
Now I am left with doing soldering the thing......I don't know if I can manage.... I have to find a scrapped PCB to training  :( :'(

The idea would be to have a set Truth + Amp_Camp into separate but identical casings.

Again.....Bravo my friend, these kind of review is rewarding and give real meanings to your work.




Title: Re: amp for the truth preamp
Post by: Ed Schilling on April 21, 2018, 12:25:34 AM
Thanks Toopy. I really appreciate the kind words from you and everyone else as well. It's been an amazing ride for us. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that a humble little speaker could have led me here, it's crazy and it's all due to folks that took a chance on a crazy dude in SC.

We thank you from the bottom of our hearts and I'll do everything I can to not disappoint anyone.
Ed